I've always thought that single sounds, like drum sounds and loops below a certain amount of time ( i think 8") cant be copyrighted. Obviously I'm NOT suggesting that sample cd's which are on the market should be added into Soundsnap. Its much more fun to contribute sounds you have made yourself.

Just want to know for sure, cause copyright is a serious issue.

i have to say that i dont know the copyright laws of any country that well, but when i was in college in SAE London we learned abit about copyright. for example i learned that u can copyright a band name, but cant copyright a song name.

to my question now, im quite sure that u cant copyright a song phrase that is under a certain amount of time ( i.e. Eminem lyrics have been used in Psy Trance songs, that have been released), does the same apply to loops? ( not specific melodies )

and, lets say I release a song tomorow, I can still upload for example the drum sounds i created for it? or am I wrong? cause I cant see a way to copyright individuals drum hits or even other instruments ( i.e bass hits ), unless they have been released on a sample CD

thx in advance for the feedback ^^

yes thx a lot, that cleared things up for me :)

hey Taso,
is it tho just a myth? what about all the remixes of old classics and pop / disco songs that come out in the progressive scene? they cant be all stealing? again i have to say i know very little about copyright.
This is off topic but a friend and musician i know said that in dance music if u change the tempo by a couple of bpm's u can copy any dance song. Now is that true??? cause if it is then i guess no1 who makes dance stuff is safe! :P

Hello all.

I just found this site, am frankly amazed by its scope and quality and hope to be contributing in the future too. As for this thread I hope to be able to shed some light on this "X Seconds -> no copyright" thing. However, being a German lawyer I can only vouch for it as far as German law is concerned, but I think the underlying principle would apply for copyrights in general.

First of all, you always have to differentiate between a recording and a composition. A recording beeing the music or sound as beeing played and recorded, the composition beeing the underlying idea (often but not necessarily written down on a sheet of music).

A composition is copyrighted in Germany for as long as the composer is alive plus 70 years. After this time you are allowed to use it as far as you play and record it yourself !

A recording is only protected for 50 years after the recording has been published.

Both of these do add up ! Meaning, if you got a 60 year old recording, the composition might still be protected for the composer not beeing dead for over 70 years. On the other hand if you have got a 30 year old recording of say Mozart, the recording is still protected even though the composition is not.

So far for the basics. Now we come to the big and murky area of exceptions from the rules. First of a composition and recording is only protected when a certain level of creativity is reached. For example, you can not copyright a single note. But beware, note does not equal sound, for a note is a note. A sound hoever can be a very unique thing.

Normaly you would need a series of notes or sounds, forming a motive or theme. As a rule of thumb, as soon as it is in any way recognisable it is protected. Here we also come to that "X second" myth. Some people say that a song or sound is only recognisable after a certain duration. While this might be true with some music, especially bad one, most popular songs will be recognised pretty quick. We´ve got a gameshow here where people get points for correctly guessing wich song is beeing played. The trick is that the songs are played on a keyboard and the less notes beeing played the more points the candidate will be awarded if he is right. Most popular songs are recognised after four to six notes, wich is normaly something between one and two seconds. It goes faster if it is not replayed, but the orininal recording is used.

However under the rules of freedom of art you my quote. A quote is not restricted to words, music and sounds can be quoted as well. Here the quote has to be long enough, that others will recognise it as a quote. There is also satire (think of Weird Al Yankovic) etc. . However here we finaly arrived where lawyers earn their keep. For here people start to argue, to quarrel and in the end sue. If you are Weird Al Yankovic, no one will doubt it is a satire. But what if you are not ? Are you just trying to milk another persons intelectual work for your own gain or is your composition in wich you used someone elses a new original piece of art (music)?

With all of the above please keep in mind, that even though the rules in itself seem to bee quite clear cut the problem usually lies in what rule to apply. So my advise is:

Whatever you do for yourself and do NOT PUBLISH, have fun. And yes, YouTube is publishing too, as well as your private homepage, because both is available to the public.

If you do publish something only use sounds or music or compositions of your own design and recording or where you are sure to be allowed its usage (like soundsnap).

If you publish something and try to make money with and are using stuff you are not 100% sure if you may use it, either dont´t or use some of that money for legal advise to make sure.

Happy thoughts :-)

When i was at college (northbrook, worthing) we also did abit on "copyright laws" ect, This Jp is basicly how it goes (to my knowledge, and what i was taught). If you take a sample of for example "Miles davis - Rated X" but the sample is even so small as half a second snip, while this IS still infrindging upon the copyright on this song, lets be honest, who on earth will ever know you used it, esspecially if you reverse,effect and/or mash it to pieces, all this said it is still an illegal uncleared sample, just a extremly difficult/impossible to detect one. Id also like to point out the possiblity that the Eminem lyrics that have been used in Psy Trance songs that you mentioned were almost defantly cleared, eminem is a very high profile artist and you simply wouldnt get away with it, unless they were released on a "white label" reason being, you cannot in anyway take a small white circle sticker to court for copyright infrindgment, unless the perosn who released the white label was silly enough to use their name on it.I hope this helps clear things up a little?